Letters Never Sent

[vulgarweed]

Dear Tolkien Society,

I have combed all the Letters and HoME notes for this and have yet to find a definitive answer to this question; if it's in there and I missed it, please forgive me. During a sexual encounter, would the penis of the penetrator or fellatee disappear upon entering an orifice of someone wearing the One Ring? (Assuming this person is neither Sauron nor Tom Bombadil)

Sincerely,

V, who needs to know Because of Reasons, and when I tried to contact the Professor over the Ouija board, he hung up on me.

~~~

Dear Christopher Tolkien....

NOPE. You guys will have better answers anyway.




[Poll #1906920]



This is the kind of question that keeps me up at night. Perhaps I should look at my life choices.

*looks*

Yup, they're fine!

Comments

[tyellas.livejournal.com]

It is my considered opinion that, because wearing the ring puts the wearer into some "other" zone, the cock/strap-on wearing rogerer's appendage would NOT disappear. *UNLESS* they were wearing a Ring of Power themselves (dwarf ring, maybe?) which would put them in, or close to, the SAME zone, although they themselves were not invisible. Indeed, is the One Ring wearer invisible to a Ring of Power (elf/dwarf) wearer? The One Ring wearer doesn't seem to be invisble to the Nazgul, who are wearing Rings of Power.

Also, the rogerer might experience some very disturbing sensations indeed. But or minds probably think alike on this one.

[tjs-whatnot.livejournal.com]

Now I'm just going to be over here imagining a shimmery cock and the body--fully visible of course--pumping its hips against air...

Thanks.

♥

[alchemine.livejournal.com]

I don't think so because if you look at transparent sea creatures, for example, you can see food they've consumed passing through their digestive systems, right? (It's been a long time since that college marine biology class...) So an object inside an invisible person would continue to be visible.

Also, Rogering an Invisible Arse sounds like the title of a dissipated former glam rocker's autobiography. :D

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

I think if the other party is wearing a Ring of Power themselves, of any kind, that would change the dynamic a lot, yes. The Nazgûl could see Frodo just fine when he was wearing it--and just as significantly, he could see them. If he'd put it on in Lothlórien, I wonder if Galadriel could have seen him. The Nazgûl might be a special case, though, since they're undead creatures who've been so utterly transformed by their Rings that they exist in that otherworldly zone all the time. That didn't happen to either elves or dwarves in the same way.

For the purposes of this question, let's assume the other partner is Ringless.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

You're so very welcome. :D

Ring or no, I assume the sight of anyone having sex with an invisible partner is going to be pretty bizarre to any third-party observer.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

True, but in Tolkienverse, we don't see, say, Bilbo's latest meal floating around in his stomach in mid-air. Clothes and things carried by the person become invisible as well when someone puts on the Ring.

I would totally read that autobiography. The title would call to me from the shelves. XD

[winter-hermit.livejournal.com]

It seems like if a coat the person is wearing becomes invisible, or the sword they're carrying, then something completely surrounded by the Ringbearer's body (because it's in their mouth, rectum, vagina, what-have-you) would be invisible too?

I expect you could argue it either way. ...seeing as we're currently arguing it both ways.

[htebazytook.livejournal.com]

My friend is reminding me that String was visible when Bilbo was fighting the spiders? idk

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Yes, there's a lot of logic in that point - see comments above about how we don't see, say, meals in a Ringbearer's stomach floating around.

But it wouldn't be completely surrounded. It would still be attached to one's owner (one hopes) so retain a quality of not being completely in the Ring-wearing person's possession.

Maybe. You totally can argue it either way.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Wow, yes - I just checked and that's true. The spiders could see it. Iiiiinteresting. (Also, kind of silly)

Are there any other cases of someone with the Ring on using a sword? Weathertop, maybe? Could any of the hobbits see Frodo's sword? Where has my copy of FOTR got to? Questions, questions.

[furius.livejournal.com]

I think, like all things in Tolkien, it depends on a matter of will. That is, possession of such. So we don't see clothes/food etc because Bilbo unthinkingly consider them as *his*; furthermore, inanimate However, we do see Sting, because at that point Bilbo's still very much aware of its elven heritage (also possibly lingering elvish awareness? Tolkien swords can be a bit sentient?). However, someone ELSE'S anatomy is necessarily someone else, so it would be like Boromir reaching for Frodo- his leg doesn't disappear Frodo kicks him etc. However, if maybe the POSSESSION seems obvious and matter in fact(required for certain dynamics perhaps), only then would I argue for disappearing cock.

[hsavinien.livejournal.com]

I would say invisible on both counts as the cocks would be within the Ring's sphere of power. Which, personally, I would not *want* to stick sensitive body parts into. Sort of like the story with baby Krishna's mouth and his mom's nipple; heebie-jeebies ensue.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

That's a very sensible explanation, and I think I'm coming around to the "no" way of thinking, or at least the "probably not, BUT..." side. I think it's also worth considering that treatment of the Ring itself isn't consistent at all between The Hobbit and LOTR, so there's another dimension of wiggle room there.

However, if maybe the POSSESSION seems obvious and matter in fact(required for certain dynamics perhaps), only then would I argue for disappearing cock.

Oh, now this is interesting! Bit of a D/s dynamic, perhaps? Does it make a difference if the Ring-wearer is aware of what it is and what it really does, and is using that power? (as opposed to: cool! magic ring! makes me invisible!)

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Something that might make a difference that I hadn't considered until this comment: how "active" is the Ring itself at that time? Is it just sort of "laying low" and pretending to be just an innocent little magic ring of invisibility, or is it trying to assert itself, corrupt people, and get back to its Master?

[hsavinien.livejournal.com]

Good question.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on whether you are trying to write humour or not.

(IMO, the whole ring-invisibility thing was not thought out fully, anyway.)

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this might be a case where the Rule of Funny and the Rule of Sexy are in conflict. (Disappearing cock? HILARIOUS).

No, it really wasn't, was it? But I'm having a lot of fun overthinking it now! :D

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I would have to say that the answer depends on one thing and one thing only - which answer do you think would make your story better?

However, if we're having the conversation purely for the sake of semantics and detail, I'd have to say that my personal guess would be that the cock would NOT disappear, because while clothing and so on disappear, the cock is part of another person and I'm fairly sure the good professor would regard the body housing a soul to be different from soulless clothing.

...And man, thank you for including the "Assuming this person is neither Sauron nor Tom Bombadil" caveat up there, because in the grand tradition of "Don't think of pink elephants," you can now guess precisely what it is I am now completely incapable of not picturing. With Galadriel in there, too, of course, just for the hell of it. And Gandalf watching while smoking his pipe. *facepalm*

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Frodo could see Glorfindel, too. No idea if it is mutual, but it's possible that any Elf of "sufficient spiritual force" or whatever could see what is going on.

Incidentally, I also have this vague impression that Tolkien said something about the invisibility effect applying only to Men and Hobbits. I could be wrong, of course. But this would mean that the answer to your question depends on the race of the rogeree... Although I am still not sure which group Dwarves would be in. (I assume this is very relevant, though.)

[furius.livejournal.com]

And I just have to come back to this thread and read ALL THE COMMENTS. Logistics seem a bit complicated though. What about Goldberry? XDDD

[(Anonymous)]

In The Hobbit, which was the last Tolkien that I read, Bilbo still has a faint shadow when he is wearing the ring. Ergo, in my own personal and strange headcanon the penetrating organ would become faint and shadowy but still technically visible, or possible transparent.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Obviously that's who Galadriel is occupied with.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Well yes, there's that.

I think I started deliberating over this because I couldn't decide which would make the story better, which is why I should maybe just step away from the computer for a year or two. XD

I like to be accurate. I'm coming around to your way of thinking on this, I must say. No matter how deep it goes, the owner of the cock does retain possession of it (one hopes).

...And man, thank you for including the "Assuming this person is neither Sauron nor Tom Bombadil" caveat up there, because in the grand tradition of "Don't think of pink elephants," you can now guess precisely what it is I am now completely incapable of not picturing. With Galadriel in there, too, of course, just for the hell of it. And Gandalf watching while smoking his pipe. *facepalm*

Well, IIRC those are the only two characters who we know would not turn invisible with the Ring on, so I suppose it would just look like that thing you can't help picturing, occurring "normally." Galadriel and Gandalf are both Ringbearers too, so sure, why not?

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

True! That effect seems to have disappeared by the time of LOTR (IIRC there's no mention of it in that book) but in Bilbo's day, that's a distinct possibility.

[elluvias.livejournal.com]

Haaaaa

My personal belief is that no it doesn't disappear. Not unless it becomes completely severed from the person in question. Which does not make for fun sexy times at ALL. All the things we've seen disappear due to the Ring's power have not been connected to another object or person.