Out of touch with the zeitgeist once again...

[vulgarweed]

This came up in a conversation with co-workers, and again in a post tonight, and I just want to get some opinions on this.

Hand sanitizer.

I used it once in my life, out of curiosity in a shop that had it by the cash register. I couldn't stand the rubbing alcohol stench, and it dried out my skin so badly I caught myself licking my hands until I could get to a Walgreen's and buy a little tube of hand lotion. (I have dry skin, and I HATE the sensation of tight skin on my hands.)

Do people really use this stuff voluntarily? And if so, do they find it makes any difference at all in how often they get sick (or don't)?

Aside from my one experiment, I have to admit I associate it mostly with this Etiquette-Hell-worthy anecdote from Barack Obama's second book:

"[Obama] recalls a meet-and-greet encounter at the White House with George W. Bush, who warmly shook his hand, then “turned to an aide nearby, who squirted a big dollop of hand sanitizer in the president’s hand.” (“Good stuff,” he quotes the president as saying, as he offered his guest some. “Keeps you from getting colds.”)" To paraphrase Kanye West, George Bush doesn't like shaking hands with black people.

It's not a very interesting subject, except that something's at work to make me think of it twice in the last week, so I'm just curious. Is this one of those cultural sweeps that bypassed me entirely?

Comments

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

I tried to be hip and trendy and bought some hand sanitizer for the office. I used it once and...instantly gifted it to one of my colleagues. Yuch!

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Good on you for at least trying to keep up, you hipster you.

Of course, the next generation will curse us for this fad having stripped them of ALL natural immunity and created super-bugs, but hey, I don't care, I don't have kids and I'll be dead, so let's party with the hand sanitizer now! Carpe diem!

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

Hand sanitizer is AWFUL. I used some just the once and God, my hands felt just as bad as yours. I hate sanitizing soaps, too--hello, superbugs!

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

I just don't get the appeal. I don't have the germ-freak gene in any form. And I think if we really want to do right by the next generation, we ought to be preparing them for the medieval/early-modern standard of living our economy's pointing toward. (Smallpox? Polio? Defeated by a buncha lousy socialists. Kiss that "nanny-state" goodbye!)

[sarken.livejournal.com]

I use it under certain circumstances.

When I'm in New York and going home for a weekend, I usually take some sort of food with me on the bus, since I'm not a big fan of going four or five hours without eating, especially when I'm carrying a suitcase that's half my weight up and down steps. Of course, to get to the Port Authority, I have to take the subway -- which generally involves holding onto the pole. The thought of touching that and then picking up food and putting it in my mouth gives me the heebie-jeebies.

The other time I use it is when I have a customer with a cold. If I can, I prefer to just wash my hands, but sometimes I can't leave the register long enough to do that. I hate it when people sneeze all over their money or credit card or purchases and then hand it to me. Thanks, but I'd really rather you just walk out the door with it -- I'll pay for it myself. Just keep your bodily fluids away from me.

Of course, colds are usually caused by a virus, and hand sanitizers only kill bacteria, so it's probably not a lot of good I'm doing myself.

(The manager, on the other hand, uses hand sanitizer if someone even looks slightly scruffy. I did something for an old hippie-type the other day [and you see a lot of those in a health food store], and the manager grabbed me and dumped half a bottle of hand sanitizer in my palm. Not necessary at all. His money wasn't even sweaty, which is another pet peeve of mine. Soggy, sweaty, limp money. Joy.)

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Yeah but...I live in Chicago and take the El several times a day and put my hands all over the place, bannisters and poles and all that...it's just never occurred to me to be bothered by it. I wash my hands when I go to the can and that's about it. I don't get sick much, regardless.

One of my jobs is a phone job. Some people are religious about washing their phones down with alcohol every day. Others never bother. There's no observable difference in who gets sick (or calls in sick) more often.

[alchemine.livejournal.com]

I usually carry a pack of baby wipes in the car to clean my hands if they're visibly dirty and I can't wash them. Other than that, I find a sink and use soap.

jackknight did use hand sanitizer a lot, because his other health problems made him super-susceptible to every germ that floated past. I don't know if it actually kept him from getting sick more often than he did, but we figured it was worth a try. I bought antibacterial soap for him too, but I don't for TC and me.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Definitely worth a try, for someone with known immune-system issues, I would think. Hell, even a placebo can have very real small effects.

[cat-latin.livejournal.com]

I hate it, but sometimes it's all that's around. Going into a porta-potty, or if you work with disabled folks with bad hygiene and you're out in the community with no running water. I bring that last one up out of experience.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

I've done two of out three (porta-potties and camping) and just skipped washing altogether in those cases - hell, if everyone's skanky, no one's gonna judge you, right?

[foxxfire5.livejournal.com]

(squirms guiltily) Er...I use hand sanitizer. But I did it before it was cool! xD xD

Seriously, I do use hand sanitizer, but not because it's the cool thing to do lol. It kind of became a necessity in college when i lived with nice but dirty roommates and our water was out half the time. >_<;;

So now I generally have some somewhere. Habit, I guess. And I have like no sense of smell so the alcohol scent doesn't bug me too bad. lol.

But don't worry, I don't use it in small areas around other people. :D

And as for it helping you not to get sick, well, I think it possibly could, if the person never washed their hands or was very dirty and then used it, but otherwise, who knows? I've got pneumonia so it didn't help me! Though I don't use it daily or anything--maybe that was my downfall. ^_~

I knew a girl at school who sued it obsesively but I really think she was OCD.

Okay. done rambling. Except to say that I love your icon and your GO art. ^__^

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Not being judgmental, I swear - I've just really only become aware of the prevalence of this stuff over the last five years or so. And I lived with lots and lots of roommates and worked lots and lots of retail before it ever came onto the scene. So I admit I kind of don't get why it's so prevalent now...but on the other hand, if you think it helps, good for you. :D

I think my sense of smell is too strong for my own good. Not even being a smoker for 20 years has damped it. (Alas, when it's summer in Chicago, I wish my olfactory powers were weaker than they are.)


No, you don't love my GO art, because I don't post art at all. (good reason for that!) I do fic, though....

[maggiebloome.livejournal.com]

I've never seen it used in actual real life before! We had a squirter at my workplace when I did customer service at a bakery - but we had to handle money, cleaning equipment and bread, so we were supposed to disinfect inbetween.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Further confirming my suspicions that this is one of those weird American things...

[shadowvalkyrie.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't think I could despise G.W.B. more than I already did. If you find shaking hands with people disgusting at least be polite enough to wash your hands after they're gone. Not that it makes blatant racism any better.

As to hand sanitizer: The only thing this stuff creates is resistent bacteria... I only used it when I had a cleaning job at a hospital while I still was in school. My mom (who's a nurse) keeps some medical-grade (stronger, mixed with antivirals and fungicides) around for when one of the family is ill, but not for anything as unimportant as colds.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Just because you have money and power doesn't mean you have class.

I agree about the resistant bacteria - it's disturbing. I think you have to be willing to suffer minor colds once in a while, give your immune system some exercise. The addiction to anti-bacterial stuff for everyday use just feels like a superstition to me.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

I've only known it used in hospitals (but I am not in the US). I suppose it would be handy in areas where clean water is not available for washing one's hands.

I believe the Queen of England wears gloves precisely because her job requires her to shake hands with a million people daily. Though of course she is of the age and eminence to be able to get away with it as part of her normal dress. The Indian namaste (also widely used in Southeast Asia) is really a much more hygienic and agreeable way to greet people.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Yes, it definitely has its uses.

I don't know how often your average US politician uses it (where GWB screwed up is that, etiquette-wise, you shouldn't let anyone see you do it) but on the campaign trail, you shake hands with a ridiculous number of people, in mass crowds, so I wouldn't be surprised if they all do.

[odogoddess.livejournal.com]

I have to keep my hands clean because my immune system is bad. But plain baby wipes have no alcohol or triclosan-the stuff in hand sanitizer that can actually *cause* super bacteria, and are good enough to get most germs.

Unless you use alcohol (which also dries your skin as you note), washing with soap and water or using a baby wipe will get about 70% of the germs, which is enough to keep from overloading your system. If you're healthy, your immune system can take care of the remaining germs, unless they're particularly fierce.

If you don't have a healthy immune system, you can add probiotics to your diet (the so-called good bacteria that eat the bad bacteria that get into your body) and help your immune system naturally.

So to answer, it's a good idea to wash your hands, but sanitizer and antibacterial soap are overkill. I use a travel-sized resealable package of baby wipes to wipe my hands before eating and after being where a lot of people are (the store or at a mall) or after using public keyboards, atms, or at bathrooms that have no water. Plus, many public bathrooms don't have paper, and you can use them for their regular purpose if need be.

[celandineb.livejournal.com]

My mother and aunt took some with them when they were traveling in central Asia a few years back, and the sanitary facilities were, um, shall we call them "often sketchy"? She then put a little bottle in my Christmas stocking the next year. I think I still have it lurking somewhere, but I've never used it.

I am deeply suspicious of that sort of thing (also antibacterial soaps) - all they seem to do is promote resistant bacteria. Plus, if people never let themselves be exposed to germs, their immune systems won't learn how to handle them. I suppose if you already have immune issues it might be different, but for most people, no.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_silverfox/]

*blinks* What exactly is hand-sanitizer?

"[Obama] recalls a meet-and-greet encounter at the White House with George W. Bush, who warmly shook his hand, then “turned to an aide nearby, who squirted a big dollop of hand sanitizer in the president’s hand.” (“Good stuff,” he quotes the president as saying, as he offered his guest some. “Keeps you from getting colds.”)" To paraphrase Kanye West, George Bush doesn't like shaking hands with black people.

Ah, I see: It's something for people with no manners. ;)

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

It's an anti-bacterial goo that people who are paranoid about germs use all the time. Quite common in the US, but the appeal is mysterious to me. Soap and water serves me fine.

You're not supposed to let anyone see you use it after you shake hands with them - the implications are obvious.

[zillah975]

I hate hand sanitizers. Not only to they feel terrible and dry out your skin, they're helping create supergerms that'll kill us all.

I don't understand people's germphobia. The human race has lasted this long partly because we haven't protected our immune systems from ever having to actually do their jobs.

The "flush the toilet with your foot" thing especially bewilders me. They don't open the door with their foot, or turn on the faucet with their foot, so what the hell good does it do?

And apparently a toilet seat is the cleanest thing in the bathroom anyway, assuming you don't get a lot of hoverers in there -- the only thing that touches it hasn't touched anything much but the inside of your jeans since you showered.

People are WEIRD.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Hoverers who don't clean up after themselves are the bane of my existence. I wish there was some way of publicly humiliating them. Some kind of magical ink that flashes something like 'POTTY TRAINING FAIL' on their foreheads.

Well, the amusing irony is that, economically speaking, we seem to be headed back towards medieval/early-modern/early-industrial living conditions for an awful lot of people in this "rich" country. Better start getting used to this lice and bedbugs and bubonic plague germs now.

[moiety-tx.livejournal.com]

My house is full of hand sanitizer right now, because I just had a baby. Everybody was bringing me little containers of it beforehand. I hate the way it makes my hands smell (the feel is less noticeable to me) and generally would rather just go wash my hands anyway after changing a diaper. I can see it being useful when you're out and about, but there too, if you're changing a baby don't you probably have wipes?

[sticktothestory.livejournal.com]

Count me for another European who's never heard of the stuff. Does it look/feel like hand lotion/soap?

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

Not really - it's kind of clear and slimy.

I suspect this is one of those American quirks.

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

I use hand sanitizer sometimes. I have eczema between my fingers, and it's much more irritated by soap and water than by the sanitizer, which dries faster.
I dunno, it's handy.
I know it's no more effective than washing your hands. Hospitals use it not because it's better than hand-washing, but because it's just as effective but faster, and causes less skin damage to hospital employees. (I can only imagine how awful my eczema would be in a job where I had to wash my hands all the time... well, I can remember how bad it was when I was a bartender. Cracked and bleeding, baby, which is so damn sexy. People love when you serve them drinks and there's visible blood on your hand.)

I never minded the smell until my camping trip a couple of weeks ago, when I went into the port-a-potty severely hung-over, was thoroughly nauseated by the smell, and came out with this strong alcohol smell clinging to my hands... It smelled so bad I almost threw up about four times before I managed to get to the hose and wash my hands properly. Ug ug ug ug. I'm not normally so sensitive to smells but occasionally, when I'm hung-over or when I've been sick, I understand how awful sensitive people have it in this inconsiderate and stinky world.

Hand sanitizer: convenient, but overused and silly.
I actually don't think the kind I use has triclosan in it... I should check that. I'm sort of against having an anti-bacterial world as well...

[azulkan2.livejournal.com]

I used to have to take safety training and CPR training once a year for the job I had. The guy who taught it hated that stuff and anything that was "antibacterial". He said all we are doing is creating super bugs cause anything that stuff doesn't kill gets stronger. I agree with him and try to never use any of that stuff.

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

I know a bunch of women who saddle their kids with both the clip-on-the-backpack containers of hand sanitizer AND one permanently tucked into their lunchboxes. Oddly, their kids get sick just as often as kids (including mine) who are unburdened by endless containers of the stuff.

The only time I'll ever use it is after feeding goats at a petting zoo. I'd still rather just go find a place to wash my hands, but if that's not an option, I'll choose the horrid, drying alcoholic goo over the sticky feeling of drying goat spit.

[empy.livejournal.com]

I only use hand sanitizer when my rook piercing (at present only two months old and still prone to flare-ups) gets really nasty and needs to be cleaned properly, ie with clean-clean hands, and even then, I suspect it doesn't make that much difference.

On the other hand, I rarely get colds despite being constantly exposed to germs at work, so perhaps I'm not the best person to ask. (Oh, and if I need to handle something absolutely revolting and germ-ridden, like a vomit-spattered suit, then I pull on rubber gloves, so there's no need for sanitizer.)

[aineotter.livejournal.com]

I keep a bottle of the stuff in my locker, for use after necropsy on the occasions when I get a hole in my glove. Frequently when that happens, even *after* I've washed my hands several times I can't get the smell of death off my hands except with a nicely scented hand sanitizer. And alcohol is a good way to kill germs; we use it in the cell culture hood, too. But then, my skin tends towards oily rather than dry.
Does this count as germ-phobic? Considering that I *know* I'm handling nasty bugs, some of which are responsible for the animals death, and many of which are potential human pathogens, well, it seems rational to me.

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

OK, YOU, my dear, have the best excuse. I would use sulfuric acid to take off the top layer of skin if I had to deal with some of the things you do. :)

[debbyl65.livejournal.com]

I keep a bottle in my glove compartment only for use if we get finger food at the drive through. It's been there for ages, though, and we haven't gotten through it yet.

Other than that, I could use it at work since I work with kids a lot now, but I don't. If I feel the need to clean my hands, I go wash them. I'm also around animals a lot at my job--or can be--and although the sanitizer is there, I don't use it then either. I did once when our animal guy was around and he groused about how bad it was for the animals to come in contact with the stuff. Stupid people will get the stuff on their hands and then go to touch the animals, or let them lick the stuff off their hands, and the animals get really sick. One of the lambs almost died this spring! So, even after handling lambs, goats, calves, what have you, I head to a sink if I feel the need for a clean-up.

I do wonder about the immunity thing.

[apricot-tree.livejournal.com]

I think it's used a lot in the hospital arena. Personally I've just used it at porta potties.

[persephoneflame.livejournal.com]

I used it when I worked medical. In spite of the gross feeling, it's actually easier on your skin than frequent washing, and we did sometimes deal with immunocompromised patients OR particularly virulent bacteria.

I've considered using it at conferences when I'm an exhibitor, because shaking hands with thousands of people from around the world is new-germ heaven. I'm not convinced it would help, though, since all that handshaking is usually combined with little sleep, bad food, late-night drinking, and air travel. I kinda think con crud is inevitable.

I'm not and never have been a germ-a-phobe or even a big hand washer, and have traditionally had a strong immune system, but as of two years ago I've started doing 4-8 conferences a year while running a start up. I have to say, it's been tough on the ol' white blood cells. Ugh.

meandering blather

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I don't use hand sanitizer myself (I even avoid antibacterial soap), but I have a germ phobic colleague who keeps it on her desk and uses it all the time. I work in a hospital and it's required for direct patient care situations, but since I'm administrative that doesn't apply to me. I'm not sure if the colleague gets sick less often than I do, but I doubt it.

Interestingly (maybe), I used to be very lackadaisical about washing my hands and for some reason I decided to get very strict about it, either with regular soap or just water if soap wasn't available. When I did I noticed a *huge* decrease in the number of minor colds I got, so I'm now a total believer in handwashing--just not with antibacterials. (I'm also a huge believer in my own immune system, which kicks ass and has always served me very well.)

One thing I do use the hell out of is antibacterial ointment--I'll dab it on any bit of skin that gets infected (i.e. red, puffy and painful) which seems to really help as far as getting things back on track and whatever's cut, scratched or bitten healed up again.

Going against the grain...as usual

[lacewood-lune.livejournal.com]

I gotta say - I wish *more* people used the stuff. Actually, I wish more people just washed their hands. But, for example, just the other day the librarian blew her nose, told me she was just getting over a really nasty cold, then handed my my library reserves. Personally, I thought that was unbelievably rude. Maybe this is just because I'm self-employed and don't get paid sick days, and I also catch every last little bug that comes along, but -- yuck! Obviously she couldn't excuse herself to go wash her hands while we all waited in line with our books. But some hand sanitizer would have been nice. Compulsive use of hand sanitizer is a little silly -- but it'd be nice if people did *something* routinely after blowing their noses.

I wash my hands with soap and water at the appropriate times, but sometimes I use the Bath & Body Works hand lotion with hand sanitizer in it instead, because my skin gets dry to the crack-and-bleed point very easily. And that's really uncomfortable. And some people tend to be (reasonably, I think) squicked by whatever you've touched when they see traces of blood on your hands from this. The Bath & Body Works stuff is great -- you've got a wide choice of scents, so you can pick whatever you like best -- flowery, musky, fruity -- some of them smell so good you'll want to eat your hands! And none of them smell like alcohol. So some of that stuff some of the time, and some regular old-fashioned hand-washing followed by some Eucerin works best for me.

Re: Going against the grain...as usual

[tears-of-nienna.livejournal.com]

On behalf of non-asshole library workers everywhere, I apologize for your asshole librarian. ;D At our library, we actually have wall-pumps for hand sanitizer. Normally I just go in the back and wash my hands, but if there's a rush and a patron decides to hold their library card in their mouth before handing it to me...one quick unobtrusive pump and the heebie-jeebies lessen somewhat. ;)

Also, Bath and Body Works moisturizing hand sanitizer is wonderful stuff. It smells good, and if you pick it up at the right time it's absurdly cheap.

...Yeah, possibly I worked at B&BW one Christmas season. It was a bad idea. XD